How Will Obamacare Decision Affect Pa. Voters?
Political experts say Pennsylvania voters may be more or less motivated if the Supreme Court strikes down Obama's health care reform
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By G. Terry Madonna & Michael L.Young
The New York Times calls Pennsylvania a “toss up state.” Others have tagged it a “battleground state” and even a “swing state.” Electoral labels aside, Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes comprise the second largest prize among the competitive states. Not surprisingly, both presidential campaigns seem to be taking the state seriously despite Barack Obama’s approximate 8-point lead and a string of Democratic victories stretching back to 1988.
But if the Keystone State is in play now, it may not be for long once an impending Supreme Court decision is handed down.
Shortly, the U.S. Supreme Court is expected to announce whether the Affordable Care Act (also known as Obama Care) passes constitutional scrutiny. Most observers expect some or the entire act to be struck down. If this happens the electoral implications will be profound. In fact, striking down all or major portions of the health care law could reshape the ongoing presidential race in ways only now dimly perceived.
Exactly why this is so requires explanation and history provides it. Indeed, American history offers a compelling lesson: in analogous situations to the health care debate: the losing side in major court cases often becomes energized while the winning side often becomes complacent. The nation’s long running legal debate over abortion exemplifies this pattern, although it has existed as far back as ante-bellum Civil War times. Many of the transformative issues of American national life including prohibition, women’s suffrage and even slavery illustrate the principle.
Applying this lesson to health care means a Democratic loss in the Supreme Court could inject a powerful shot of adrenaline into a largely apathetic Democratic Party base. At the same time it would probably undercut the GOP enthusiasm that has been so massively mobilized by opposition to Obama’s healthcare plan.
The converse, while unlikely, is true also. If the Supreme Court does uphold Obama care, it will be Republicans who are energized, with consequences equally as significant for the 2012 election. States now comfortably in Obama’s column could become toss-ups overnight.
How can a single Supreme Court decision hold so much importance to an election? One way to answer this question is to examine the most recent Franklin & Marshall College Poll that asked Pennsylvania voters how they felt about Obama’s health care law.
Statewide, Pennsylvanians are actually divided somewhat evenly on Obama’s healthcare legislation, with about 46% in favor and 48% opposed. But this apparent divided opinion dissolves dramatically when one examines the data along party lines.
Rarely, if ever, is there greater polarization along party lines than exists on this issue. In Pennsylvania eight in ten Republicans oppose the Affordable Care Act, but only about two in ten Democrats do.
The sharp party polarization in Pennsylvania is roughly mirrored in national statistics. The Pew Research Center estimates that nationally 88% of Republicans disapprove of the law, while only 37% of Democrats disapprove.
Opposition to Obama care has been the GOP’s hot button issue in 2012. Consequently, if the Supreme Court scuttles it, the issue that has animated Republican voters more than any other will be mooted. Taking it off the table inevitably effects Republican turnout and support for Romney. How much is impossible to say. But by winning in the Supreme Court, some of the air goes out of the GOP electoral balloon.
Similarly it is impossible to know how much losing in the Supreme Court will motivate Democratic voters .The now relatively quiescent Democratic base, however, might respond vigorously. Certainly Democratic strategists will have newfound opportunity to castigate Republicans over issues that have been moribund since Obama care was passed, including uninsured voters and lifetime spending limits.
What this means for Pennsylvania is that a race now seen as more and more winnable for Republicans may instead shift decisively toward Obama and the Democrats. What it means nationally is that a tight race gets tighter still.
Winning on health care reform could cost Republicans the presidency, while losing could give Democrats another term in the White House. If it turns out this way, it won’t be the first time in American history that winning a legal battle lost a political war.
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Politically Uncorrected™ is published twice monthly, and previous columns can be viewed at http://politics.fandm.edu. The opinions expressed in this article are solely those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any institution or organization with which they are affiliated. This article may be used in whole or part only with appropriate attribution. Copyright © 2010 Terry Madonna and Michael Young.
Andrew Wilt
8:40 am on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Why would anyone want to leave healthcare up to the government?
The US Postal Service is broke.
Social Security is broke.
Fannie Mae is broke.
Freddie Mac is broke.
Fannie and Freddie have led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.
The War on Poverty hasn’t worked.
Medicare and Medicaid are broke.
AMTRAK runs at a loss.
“Cash for Clunkers” went broke after 80% of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by foreign companies, and dealers nationwide are buried under bureaucratic paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what was promised.
Who would want the federal government to run or even set policies for America’s health care system which is 14% of our economy?
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
8:28 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Any idea how you would fix what ails you?..Certainly not how Bush & Co. took the country, and the world into the abyss!
Wynnewoodie
2:27 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
You do realize that the whole point of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare, largely based on the system Mitt Romney set up in Massachusetts) was to keep government OUT of the healthcare system. It mandated that everyone carry health insurance and that insurance companies could not deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, but the insurance providers are all private companies. Government-run insurance was eliminated from the bill that was passed by Congress and signed by President Obama.
Obamacare may be struck down by the Supreme Court precisely because it tried to work with private insurance companies rather than setting up a government-run (single payer) system. The part of Romney/Obamacare that is the most problematic legally is the coverage mandate, which is necessary for cost-containment of universal coverage by private insurance companies.
Ironically, a single-payer system would be unquestionably constitutional.
Carl W
2:16 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
Bush Administration. OPEN YO)UR EYES....industry is coming back. Mack Trucks....everyone called back, & hiring more. Automakers not only doing better than they've done in many years, w/ better4 cars, Toyotas are now BUILT in Kentucky, with some parts from Japan.
The President is trying to get healthcare for all...something the U. S. has NEVER had. It won't come perfectly overnight, but We're trying to do it. Postal is because we do too much - yes, too much - on THESES things, which also enhances identity theft!!
Tony
9:44 am on Thursday, June 21, 2012
hey to be fair, the private sector darn near collapsed the system as well with the financial disaster last few years. All i know is I own my own business, and health care as it stands before Obamacare was quoted for small business health insurance of $2100 a month for my family. Who can afford that? I also work in the private sector and the last 10 years have seen my premiums rise 50%. So what is the answer? dont know. But the fact is, is that we are the ONLY country where you can go bankrupt for healthcare. If the government does nothing right, then I guess the military does nothing right as well to follow the point.
Who would want the federal government to run or even set policies for America’s military system which has cost us trillions and even worst lost lives over 2 wars? I know it makes no sense but there are no answers to fix any of this. And if some one has the answer then run for President. Romney sure as heck has no answer. Dude has set the same exact policies. But has flipped flopped to get elected and even has said everything he has said is like a etch-a-sketch that can be erased once he is elected. Oh Joy!
Frank
10:22 am on Thursday, June 21, 2012
I wanted single payer but we all know that Republicans wanted NOTHING because they hate the fact that a Democratic President was trying to fix something that was broken. Healthcare is broken and something had to be done. Republicans make me sick.
Harrison T Williamson, Jr.
10:26 am on Thursday, June 21, 2012
you have a wake up call coming November 6th, enjoy
Tony
1:32 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
to be fair Frank, this was 100% completely a Republican idea that was they tried to pass in the 1990's. Also, it is also 100% a Romney idea that he passed and originally agreed with until he wanted to dupe people into voting for him.
Liberalism is a mental disorder
2:10 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
That's fine, because you numb nutz liberals make me sick, AND are destroying the country. The goverment doesn't do ANYTHING well... so let's just give them healthcare. The Republicans offered many suggestions that would leave private insurers in place. Why? Because when a company is trying to make money, they find EFFICIENCIES in the system. Fat, lazy federal workers just care that their next paycheck and pension are coming, and don't give a damn about working harder to find fraud and waste.... that's actually more work, and they know they won't lose their jobs no matter how bad and expensive whatever government program they are working on gets. GOVERNMENT IS MASSIVE WASTE AND INEFFICIENCY BECAUSE NOBODY CARES. NOBODY IS AFRAID OF LOSING THEIR JOB like in the private sector. Here, we work HARD to become better, faster, cheaper and more efficient... our job depends on it !!
Tony
2:47 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
@ Liberals are Losers. So to quote you then if the government doesn't do anything well. You are saying our military is not great and does nothing well. You sir are a genius! you need to take a breather and stop drinking the Glenn Beck juice. and NO, I am not a liberal. actually registered republican. Romney is not the answer. He will accomplish nothing. Mr Flip Flop. Paul would have been a great choice, but its funny sitting here reading posts that try to make Romney the better candidate. Obama has governed more like Reagan. Reagan RAISED taxes many times. FACT. Reagan said that "...everyone must pay their fair share....why should a millioniare pay less taxes than a bus driver..." FACT. so how is that different than Obama? The shift in healthcare from Romney now is almost ludicrous and anybody believing his words, needs to check themself into an asylum.
Liberalism is a mental disorder
4:11 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Hey Tony... our military is INCREDIBLY WASTEFUL when it comes to spending. TOTALLY. Again, it might work reasonably well, but at absurd prices.
Oh... Romney is not the answer.... so leave Obama in, he is. Registered Republican my butt. You are just another liberal who tries to pretend he is Republican. Reagan was not in the business of creating huge numbers of bums who live off the government. Reagan would not let this rediculous border situation go on. Obama is NOTHING like Reagan. Reagan did not expand the government by 1.5 trillion dollars.
FACT - Bushes last year in office, we spend 2.7 billion. Obuma now spends almost 4 billion or more. FOR WHAT.
Mike Wiiliams
5:26 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Dont get too sick because us republicans put up a good legal arguement to disband
Obamacare. No free rides, get out and work
Tony
5:26 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
@Liberals are Losers. No sir. You are just another whack job Beck juicer. Need to calm down and realize that your so called Republican beliefs are imaginary because your same republicans that YOU voted for or liked, are the same ones destroying what you believe Obama is destroying. Here is a nice video of Reagan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA
Seems to me he is a BIG bleeding heart liberal for saying things like that. What a socialist!
John Stanley
12:30 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012
Frank - people like you make me sick
louis kootsares
12:10 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
there are things this country needs to eliminate ..cancer, termites,terrorists obahmacare..which will put alot of small businesses out of business and hopefully will be ruled unconstitutional,and saddam obahma there are alot of words to describe that bought and paid for phoney egotistical charlatan none of them good
Jim Gregory
2:28 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Andrew's comments are so ridiculous, they arent even worth commenting on but let me make a stab..Medicare and Social Security are working for millions of seniors and thank god it is.Without it many seniors would be destitute. The governemnt has run a health care program and it's called Medicare and it's working well,in case you havent noticed. Maybe they didnt mention that on Fox news..What I haven't heard, is what the Republican option is.. Oh yea, I did hear. I think it's suffer and die..That's their plan..They figure if they can kill off all our seniors by not providing health care, our social security payments would be reduced and the program would be sustainable.. Wow, what geniuses! Louis, did you take a breather from Fox news to post here? Thanks for your insighful post..Sure clears up my misconceptions about Fox news viewers, lol
Liberalism is a mental disorder
4:16 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Hah... MEDICARE? Working well ?? HAHAHA. Ya, maybe if you think a system with 30% fraud, that is spending far beyond its means is working well. Medicare is rediculous. If a senior falls, then get MRI, CAT scan, XRays, etc. And don't need them 90% of the time. But the hospital does the tests anyway. If a working person falls, the managed care insurer has controls, so you don't get all those needless tests unless there are SYMPTOMS or a reason.
Social Security? IT"S GOING BROKE... and social security disability is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people. 80% of people getting social security disability can work. Why do they get it? Because come wombat working in the social security office doesn't really care.... not their money, just grant disability and on we go.
Anybody who thinks those are example of things working is an idiot.
John
3:29 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Tony, I would love hearing your numerous renditions as to how Obama governs like Reagan. He has been TRYING to associate himself with the true leader since 2008, yet as in most issues, actions speak louder than words. Reagan brought the American people together, helping the small businessowner by decreasing taxation and developing trickle-down economics....allowing the businessperson to prosper, create jobs and decide where and when to spend money. Reagan rebuilt our military, creating a safer nation and world, and he didnt allow any Russian to dictate policy. Obama has stripped the small businessperson, has and will further load upon the small businessman taxation directly and indirectly (try reading Obamacare...not the Cliff-notes on CNN) until they throw up their hands and join the unemployed. Obama has taken money out of American's hands, built a corrupt government who will dictate to us what we can spend and where we can spend it. Based upon the speech he gave in Mexico the other day, I, like most Americans are completely confused as to why my leader even went to such a meeting. Apparently they talked, and Russia told them all to go fly a kite!
Please stop trying to attach your guy to a REAL LEADER! He is arrogant and misguided. He knows nothing of leadership, and has done nothing but separated this country more than anyone I have seen at the top in 50 years.
Tony
11:56 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
John, I am a small business owner. Obama has done nothing to increase or strip anything from me. He actually cut payroll taxes for me and my employees, the same as Reagan may have done. Hence governing like Reagan. Also, increased our milatary and has 2 wars going on, sounds like Reagan. Obama reaching over isle to Republicans by negotiation. Sounds like Reagan. Obama passed the Republican health care idea from the 1990's sounds like a republican. It's hard to lead when the inmates are running the asylum (republicans in house), which is why the House has like a 9% approval rating. Reagan wanted to raise taxes on the rich and give to the poor. (link provided as fact on this page already). If Obama was governing anything different I would swear the man is a Republican. That is why there is absolutely NO difference between him and Romney. Now of course, as any that hasn't head their head buried you know where, Romney has flipped flopped on everything to gather votes for Presidency and as he said, he can just "etch-a-sketch" every thing once elected. I wish I was making this stuff up, but of course this is all factual information. Please provide us with facts, not made up stuff, about how Obama created a government filled with little satans. And to add to your Mexico story, I am still baffled why any president would do so. Why did Bush give $100 million to Pakistan. Why did Bush give $1 billion to the country Georgia. I know...i know..its in the past, but I am still paying for it
Tony
12:00 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
oh and here is a link to prove my point of lowering taxes and governing like Reagan.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/01/barack-obama/obama-says-taxes-lower-middle-class/
John
3:41 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Jim.....where are you getting your data? Medicare is a CLUSTER! You need to spend a few moments with Medicare patients and ask how easy it is for them to gain access into a system they have been feeding for 40 years! But I am assuming you are blindly following Obama, where both Medicare and the private sector are doing just PEACHY! Isn's it so easy to say when you are not part of the system, either Medicare or private sector?
As for Obamacare, 2 issues, if you work and own a home....effective 2013, that amount of money your employer is putting into help cover your healthcare....taxable, so save up! Also, if you are planning on downsizing, like most retired "FOLKS" are looking to do, well do it quickly, because in 2013, there will be an additional tax of 3% on the sale price of your house ---- all going to help pay for OBAMACARE. I dont disagree with your point of "show me an alternative", but you have to agree, when multitude of groups are projecting Obamacare that will cost trillions more, shouldnt we come together as a nation and formulate a plan that will hurt everyone the least? Obamacare was rammed down our throats, to the point that it is in front of the country's highest court. Doesnt that tell you anything? Or should we simply change because thats what our leader is telling us to do. Thus far, I dont see any of his changes bringing this country together. Chicago politics doesnt work in the USA!
John
3:58 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Good Reading.....Here's an opinion piece by Chuck Green who writes "Greener Pastures" for the Denver Post Aurora Sentinel...one of the more liberal papers in the country. Additionally, Mr. Green is a lifelong Democrat...so this is rather a stunning piece...Entitled "OBAMA THE VICTIM"
Obama is victim of Bush's failed promises!
Barack Obama is setting a record-setting number of records during his first term in office:
Largest budget ever. Largest deficit ever.
Largest number of broken promises ever.
Most self-serving speeches ever.
Largest number of agenda-setting failures ever.
Fastest dive in popularity ever!
Wow! Talk about change.
Just over two years ago, fresh from his inauguration celebrations,
President Obama was flying high.
After one of the nation's most inspiring political campaigns,
the election of America 's first black president had captured the hopes and dreams of millions.
To his devout followers, it was inconceivable that a year later
his administration would be gripped in self-imposed crisis.
Of course, they don't see it as self-imposed. It's all George Bush's fault !
George Bush, who doesn't have a vote in congress and who no longer occupies
The White House, is to blame for it all.
He broke Obama's promise,
to put all bills on the White House web site for five days before signing them.
He broke Obama's promise,
to have the congressional health care negotiations broadcast live on C-SPAN.
John
3:59 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
More........He broke Obama's promise, to end earmarks.
He broke Obama's promise,
to keep unemployment from rising above 8 percent.
He broke Obama's promise, to close the detention center at Guantanamo in the first year.
He broke Obama's promise,
to make peace with direct,
no precondition talks with America 's
most hate-filled enemies during his first year in office,
ushering in a new era of global cooperation.
He broke Obama's promise,
to end the hiring of former lobbyists into high White House jobs.
He broke Obama's promise,
to end no-compete contracts with the government.
He broke Obama's promise,
to disclose the names of all attendees at closed
White House meetings.
He broke Obama's promise,
for a new era of bipartisan cooperation in all matters.
He broke Obama's promise,
to have chosen a home church to attend Sunday services with his family by Easter.
Yes, it's all George Bush's fault!
President Obama is nothing more than a puppet
in the never-ending failed Bush administration.
If only George Bush wasn't still in charge,
all of President Obama's problems would be solved.
His promises would have been kept,
the economy would be back on track,
Iran would have stopped its work on developing a
nuclear bomb and would be negotiating a peace treaty with Israel .
North Korea would have ended its tyrannical regime,
and integrity would have been restored to the federal government.
John
4:00 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
More......
Oh, and did I mention what it would be like, if the Democrats,
under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid,
didn't have the heavy yoke of George Bush around their necks?
There would be no ear marks,
no closed-door drafting of bills, no increase in deficit spending,
no special-interest influence (unions), no vote buying ( Nebraska , Louisiana ).
If only George Bush wasn't still in charge, we'd have real change by now.
All the broken promises,
all the failed legislation and delay (health care reform, immigration reform)
is not President Obama's fault or the fault of the
Democrat-controlled Congress.
It's all George Bush's fault !
Take for example the attempt of Eric Holder,
the president's attorney general,
to hold terrorists' trials in New York City .
Or his decision to try the Christmas Day underpants bomber as a civilian.
Two disastrous decisions.
Certainly those were bad judgments based on poor advice from George Bush!
Need more proof?
You might recall when Scott Brown won the election to the U.S. Senate from Massachusetts ,
capturing "The Ted Kennedy Seat", President Obama said,
Brown's victory was the result of the same voter anger that propelled Obama into office in 2008.
People were still angry about George Bush and the policies of the past 10 years.
And they wanted change.
Yes, according to the president, the voter rebellion in Massachusetts ,
was George Bush's fault.
John
4:02 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
And Finally!
Therefore, in retaliation, they elected a Republican to the Ted Kennedy seat,
ending a half-century of domination by Democrats. It is all George Bush's fault !
Will the failed administration of George Bush ever end,
and the time for hope and change ever arrive ???
Will President Obama ever accept responsibility for something / anything?
From the Mouth's of Liberal Journalists!
Liberalism is a mental disorder
4:20 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
John... 100% right !!!!
Tony
5:29 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
John and Liberals are Losers...name one thing Romney did that was sooooooo Conservative. Go ahead. What about Mr. Boehner. Why arent any of those Republicans in office offering to cut THEIR pay that I PAY for. WHy do I have to PAY for their health insurance and bloated pensions. REAL conservative. Show me and all of us on here WHERE BUSH did not cause ANY DEFICIT. SHOW us how Reagan DID NOT Raise taxes and cause ANY deficit. Go ahead. Can't. I bet you that you cant. You guys need to do some reading and stop watch Faux News.
John
8:26 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Tony, what's your point? Your blood pressure is high, take a breath and just look at your response.....I NEVER said RR didn't raise taxes, I said he reduced taxes on the small businessman, allowing the small businessman to create jobs and allow the economy to prosper. His raising taxes went towards restoring our military so 3rd world countries could push us around, and hold Russia at bay.
Why does your response always change the subject...Republicans giving money back?? Where did tat come from? Who claimed Bush didn't cause deficits, however in his eight (8) years he created 1/2 the debt your boy did in 3.5 years. Tony, you need to try staying on point, and when intelligent facts are brought to the discussion, recognize it rather than changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Your boy has accomplished NOTHING in 4 years except tell you what you want to hear. C'mon Tony, the private sector is doing fine? Medicare is in control. Eric Holder did no wrong? Maybe I'll close Gitmo. Sir, you have been DUPED! LIED TO. FOOLED. BAMBOOZLED... Your boy's BIG VICTORY is in front of the Supreme Court regarding legality and Constitutional! Even Slick Willy, who went on Tv and sold to America that oral sex isn't sex, is even questioning Obama! It's a circus in Washington, and Obama is the ring leader.
Tony
9:39 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
John...please do your research first. a huge portion of Obama's debt was carried over into his presidency. 2009- on ward. dont include Bush's 2008 year. Also, I am bringing up intelligent facts, which is why you are trying to push your agenda. Private sector is not doing bad. I mean I found 2 full time jobs and left the first for another. Why did I find 2 good paying jobs then? Like I had mentioned before, I want you to provide me with conservative points that Romney has accomplished and what you like about him. Please do. Also, stop watching Fox news. Add some more news outlets to your daily information. You have been brainwashed and obviously can not see that the house GOP is blocking everything and accomplishing nothing. So therefore, it is hard for Obama to pass anything, when these new GOP radical conservatives will pass nothing unless it has to deal with religion or taking women's rights away. They are more focused on anti-abortion things than the economy. There are so many other laws and things that previous presidents have done that were un-Constitutional. So here we are wasting over 1 trillion on wars and rebuilding OTHER countries. Love the fact republicans are giving my tax dollars away to other countries ALL the time, and even Obama joined in on that game.
John
8:36 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Liberals, just accept that in 4 years the shoe has switched. In 2008, Republicans had no answer to "CHANGE". It sounded good, it was different, so America bought into it. So here we are in 2012. Democrats now have NO ANSWER to healthcare, economy, foreign policy, jobs, unemployment, leadership,.....he basically can do nothing but bad mouth his opponent. He CANNOT discuss any points, because his record SUCKS...he has accomplished nothing, fixed nothing and most importantly he has separated this country more than any politician in the last 100 years. He needs to go. More people will vote against Obama just as those 4 years ago voted against McCain. The shoe has simply changed feet. It's frustrating to have no answers to any facts and no argument to any topic of discussion.
Tony
9:47 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
He's not bad mouthing anyone but repeating their words that came out of their mouth, or the past track record. it would have been more difficult if Obama was going up against Paul because Paul has a solid track record and is a true conservative. Romney is possibly the biggest flip flopper we will ever see. Watch...if that fool wins the presidency he will pass the republican idea health care (Obamacare). He will raise taxes on the middle class. He will govern on his loopy Mormonism religion. Can't wait for Joseph Smith to come down from planet Kolob to save all of us. It's either vote just because of beating Obama, which is idiotic and will accomplish nothing. Or vote for Gary Johnson or Paul. But if its between Obama and Romney, which it is, then its Obama for me. Romney is the biggest flip flopper liberal I have seen. Obama is governing just like Reagan did at least, except that he passed the Republican Health care plan (obamacare). He has increased military, kept the 2 non sense wars, kept Gitmo, cut taxes for the middle class and small businesses, and kept the Bush tax cuts. He hasn't raised taxes(yet).
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
9:00 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
The Affordable Health Care Act, aka Obamacare, has a lot of good features in it: It rewards caregivers who do a good job (not fee-for service), it looks for unfair insurance companies' practices, young people stay with their parents' plans until age 26, preventive care is covered, pre-existing conditions are cannot be denied by insurance companies, millions of uninsured American will be able to get it...What bothers me no end is when uninsured people depend on the rest of us taxpayers for their care...The Act would eliminate this problem...Many more features are in the document but space precludes me from enumerating all of them...Also, you could read a copy of the book HEALTH CARE REFORM by Jonathan Gruber who devised Mitt Romney's plan in Massachusetts...Stay cool, folks.
John
8:41 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Wilfredo, who is paying the good caregiver? Who is assessing who is a good caregiver and who is not? Who is aging the assessor? What happens to the bad caregiver? Adding 35,000,000 Americans and not paying those who meet federal guideline standards, who replaces that caregiver? Who will take care of the 35,000,000 additional patients, not to mention the newly added million Mexicans that Obama handed Visas to this week? My point is it all sounds WONDERFUL! It gets me to vote for these ideas.....BUT then reality sets in and I ask who is paying for FANTASYLAND? Answer, the American taxpayer, whose numbers are on the decline. It's a whole lot easier collecting than it is putting in. I firmly agree with you these ideals are virtuous, I disagree with you because they will never be implemented. This is why the Supreme Court is presently addressing this.
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
8:55 am on Saturday, June 23, 2012
John...I understand your and others' concern about paying the for program...For one, the rich (over $200,000.00 annual income tax) should fork over their "fair share" coupled with cutting health care spending (in ways mentioned in the Act), overpayments to private insurance companies have to be contained as well as Medicare payments to hospitals (you will be surprised how hospitals react to this "shortfall"), with so many more new Americans insured in the process, the Act could then impose higher taxes on other medical sectors (drug companies, medical device companies and finally the insurance companies) who stand to gain on this windfall...I learned this from that HEALTH CARE REFORM book I mentioned in my post ($7.00 on paperback)...It's very educational (and no, I don't get a commission plugging it)...As far as REALITY setting in, that's for all of us to make it work.
Amend Wun
9:08 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Would those defending trickle down economics please explain the net benefit to the general populous, keeping in mind the growing income gap, stagnant wages and loss of the manufacturing base that has occurred over the past 30 years under that ideology. Further, it seems hypocritical for republicans to look for ever fault of President Obama, yet they overlook the fact that President Bush entered into a protracted conflict that cost America trillions of dollars and thousands of lives under false pretenses. Certainly Obama isn't perfect, neither are the republicans, and to run on an "anyone but Obama" ticket just demonstrates one's ignorance. Tell us how Romney would be a better choice. I'm an Independent and I've been waiting to hear something new from his camp other than the same tired rhetoric of "let's help the wealthy, they'll create jobs" and all of his other religious and class motivated doctrine. If he's the republican's best chance, than they should be ashamed. Beating up Obama's record to make such a sorry candidate look better is weak at best.
Lower Saucon Guy
10:07 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Well said Amend. My sentiments exactly.
frank dracman
11:21 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Beating up Obama's record is weak at best .....so what does that make blaming a former president for the currents shortcomings?
Tony
10:12 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Great points. But those types of talking points, facts, etc will sure fire up Liberals are Losers. He will try to argue, backing those arguments with no facts, but just with his opinion. It's comical. I'm still waiting for any conservative records on Romney to be disclosed. Also, I have provided facts that Obama has been governing like Reagan, but nothing back from them yet. lol.
Seavet1
12:22 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Now that we have listen to the tea party and it’s all about me, lets discuss why healthcare is so high. Then let’s start with physicians that make more money than any other physicians in the world. That is why so many foreign physicians are here. Then the interference of the health insurance industry who couldn’t care less about the people why insure, they call them “covered lives”. If you are over 50 you would do well to embrace Obamacare or hope you never are really seriously ill.
Charlie D.
12:59 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Bottom line, the Federal Government already spends 60% more per year than they bring in. 60%! The government cannot tax enough to close that gap. The Federal Government must shrink by massive amounts or the USA will go bankrupt, it's Accounting 101. All segments must shrink or be shut down, unfortunately it is all talk about eliminating fraud and Obama's recently submitted budget significantly increased spending again. Folks, you should watch this series of videos where very liberal Phil Donahue interviewed Milton Friedman in 1979....the problems haven't changed very much since then however the severity of the problems are much more grave today. Take the time to watch this, it is very educational:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1lWk4TCe4U
Chris Sullivan
1:50 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Wow this thread devolved quickly! In any case: I want to share my story. I've been denied healthcare for what I'd struggle to even call a medical condition - it's never (nor could it ever possibly) require treatment and no individual or insurance company has ever paid a dime as a result of it. Thanks United Healthcare and your ridiculously reactive underwriters who know absolutely nothing about medicine!
As part of my job I regularly see medical bills from other countries and it's such a joke - a 10 minute consultation in Germany will set you back (assuming you are uninsured) €10.72 (~$13.40). I see bills where people have major surgeries and are charged about $800. Their extremely inexpensive insurance covers it all of course, minus the quarterly co-pay of €15 (yes QUARTERLY, i.e., max €60 per year). Yet I got a bill from CHOP this past January where just a 30 second consultation cost me $440. Why this difference? Prices are set by law in Germany. Here, they're just made up. A ROUTINE appendectomy in the US can cost anywhere between $1,529 and $182,955. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-04-23/extreme-hospital-bills-appendix/54490452/1
I pay over $800 in healthcare premiums for healthcare and it covers almost nothing. Despite this law, Aetna tried everything it could to avoid covering my 100% healthy newborn ('we didn't receive a copy of the birth certificate you sent twice and faxed once'). I can't tell you how much I hope this law is sustained.
Tony
2:18 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Chris I can relate. My son needed an MRI at 6 months old. 2 hours = $25,000. Either is the biggest scam in the world, or greed. No justification for that type of pay out. Some how every body thinks that the US is the best at every thing, but numbers don't lie. We are the best at overcharging US and giving our money to other countries.
Chris Sullivan
2:54 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Tony: Here is a link to the prices doctors can charge for an MRI in Germany (see numbers in red). http://www.e-bis.de/goae/Goae00000166.html. Charges are (in order) for an MRI of the head and/or neck, spine/neck/aorta, abdomen/pelvis, mammary glands, joints/sections of extremities, extremities, supplemental series for any of the above, surcharge for change in position/reel, computer-assisted analysis of the above and the last one is the maximum someone can be charged for an MRI (€629.50 = $787). Might I also add that the medical care I've received in Germany was not only ridiculously cheaper than in the US, but also leaps and bounds better. I once got bled for four hours trying to get stitches in my ankle in the US and then waited another two hours to get discharged. In Germany I got my chin stitched up and was discharged 15 minutes after arrival. And that's just one example...
Harrison T Williamson, Jr.
3:07 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
if medical care is so great elsewhere in the world how come the rich and famous in foreign lands travel to the united states for healthcare?
Chris Sullivan
3:18 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Hi Harrison. That's easy: The US is the best in the world when it comes to price-is-no-object specialized care. If I had some rare brain disease and limitless funds there's absolutely no place I'd rather be than here in the US. No question.
But the US is terrible when it comes to treating regular illnesses and the like - especially in a cost-effective manner. For example (since my wife and I recently had a child) let's look at the US' infant mortality rate. Here are some stats from the CIA: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
Sweden, perhaps the most socialist non-communist country out there, has an infant mortality rate of 2.74. The United States: 5.98 - that's worse than Cuba! Chances are people like you and me will not end up having some rare brain disease that requires specialist care (and/or limitless funds), but chances are you and I will need to go to the emergency room for stitches, get the flu, perhaps even have children, etc. In my experience, treatment for those things here in the US has been substandard vs. Germany and cost at least four times as much.
Here's a table showing how the World Health Organization ranks healthcare systems by country (and by expenditure per capita):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
6:36 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
We don't really know that for sure, do we?..Some come here, yet others go somewhere else, too...Rumor has it that some Americans go to places like India, the Philippines, Singapore for cheaper services with better outcomes.
Tony
3:09 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
you know the critics would say you are lying Chris, and that in Canada people are on wait lists, waitin for basic treatment. lol. i checked out that link, its incredible how the same procedure costs substantially less. I am also waiting on the Republican Idea Health Insurance (aka Obamacare). As a small business owner I can not even buy business health insurance. Health carriers, not the state, require their be a minimum 4 NON-related individuals to agree to be part of the insurance in order to get group health insurance. So that policy is anti-small business and is the status quo and always has been. Once the Obamacare is enacted, I would be able to tap into an exchange where I can purchase health insurance for myself, my family, and my hard working employees. Without that, it would cost me and my family about $2100/month in the individual market for a good health plan. This is the type of free market numbers some of the posters on here can obviously afford or agree with. They would rather pay for us to re-build other countries (anti-American) than to help fellow Americans. If that wasn't the case, then they would be making the free money to other countries argument first.
will ball
4:29 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Hey Everyone,
Amazing debate we have going on here. Way to take the opinions and so called "facts" you digest in the mainstream media, filter them, and then cite them as your own. My point? Discussions like this are pointless. The articles you quote are biased. The politicians you defend aren't looking out for your best interest. And the people you are debating will NEVER change their stance because of what you're saying.
So keep pissing in the wind people.
Liberalism is a mental disorder
5:25 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Oh thank you enlightened one. Many of us here are able to digest FACTS that come from various sources... Federal Budgets, CBO reports, Economic reports from government and think tank groups, things we see with our own eyes, the interest rates we are earning on our own accounts, the value of our home or 401K, etc.
So piss off Will Ball. We don't need some kiddie to come in here and act like he has it all figured out. Well then again, if you have it all figured out, tell all of us dimwits how it should be done.
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
9:10 am on Saturday, June 23, 2012
We go to school to learn on the ways of the world...We do listen to broadcasts, read the papers, watch Fox News then we cull things we think are inappropriate...And yes, we side with those we think are on our same wave length...If you find these commentaries pointless and had your mind set, then you are wasting you time here.
will ball
3:47 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012
Open your eyes Liberals are Losers. Or, better yet, try to see a different point of view other than your own. I never claimed to have it figured all out. I'm simply pointing out how trivial and trite your statements are, especially when considering that no one cares what you have to say. But it's not just you, it's everyone who launches into thunderous tirades on online forums.
Thanks for proving my point Wilfred. You sir, are wasting your time. How many people have you "converted" to your point of view? None. So why post your opinion on a forum? Because you need an outlet to voice what you have to say. But why do you do this? It stems from a much deeper need and craving. You want to be heard because you feel like what you have to say matters. But it doesn't. In fact, we've heard it before from our media. Way to keep the cycle going!
travon black
5:33 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
The evil people, who have the gun power rules, just ask the native Indians, and Africans. In American the poor people, the working people are always taking up for the rich people. Poor people are the are the front lines, protecting the rich When the poor whites wake up and smell the coffee this bull sht will stop..
John
8:32 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Tony, you're the only small business owner I know who has left his job and gotten 2 others. Didn't you like your boss??? To anyone who doesn't like the quality of healthcare, go somewhere else. I had an MRI at a local orthopedic practice cost me and my insurance company $523. $25,000??? And who paid that? Maybe if all of the unhappy Americans went somewhere else, maybe this would be a better nation. I am not attempting to change other's minds, I am just shocked at the ridiculous statements being made. Obama added $5 trillion to the debt. Obama has hurt EVERY small business owner, and will continue to do so especially come 2014 when your tax on employment will double, you will be forced to pay for every employees insurance because they will have to have it. Of course this will EVERY business owner...EXCEPT TONY :)
Chris Sullivan
10:08 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
I just wanted to add that with regards to the CHOP bill I mentioned above: my wife and I were quoted $265 - that was pretty much the only reason we agreed to the test anyway. When we got the bill, it came to $2775. They divided it up in every possible way to milk us for as much as they possibly could. After five months, it did get taken care of - heck, they even admitted it was inappropriate billing - but that kind of stuff has become normal these days. In any case: as far as knowing what something will cost ahead of time: it's just never the case. My wife's insurance didn't cover pregnancy/childbirth, etc. and we got a quote on what everything would cost ahead of time (whether it made a difference or not) and it was always more expensive. Sometimes only $30 more expensive, about $400 more expensive on average and one time $2510 more expensive. See that link above I posted about appendectomies. As Dr. Howard Brody's quote states: "the laws of supply and demand simply do not work well in health care."
Tony
9:07 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
John ....luckily I had insurance at the time for my child that needed the MRI. The bill was $25,000. That is a fact. I have it to prove it. I had a deductable of $1500. I paid it. It is ridiculous these are facts. Obama has NOT hurt ANY small business owner, get your head out of your butt. He has given us tax breaks, payroll tax breaks for employees. SHOW US FACTS where he has hurt any small business owner you putz
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.
4:45 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
After the Arizona decision, I don't expect much coming out of the right-leaning SCOTUS in favor of the "mandate" portion of the ACA...Fasten your seat belts, Liberals...It's gonna be a bumpy ride on Thursday.,,All we can do is hope for the best (that we get a sensible Affordable Healthcare Act).
Barry Gellman
4:51 pm on Tuesday, July 3, 2012
taxing the well to do to cover the poor isn't reform ! making the hospitols stop charging 5K for a cat scan when they are willing to accept 35$ for it from the insurance companies. THAT is REFORM . Obamma care is simply redistribution of assetts and does not address the health care problem at all , least of all for anyone that actually has health care .. Look at a hosp bill some time , its rediculous ! then they accept three precent from your ins company . Try paying 3 % of your deductible and see where that get's you . I called Phoenixville Hospitol to discus thatr ater I saw them accept 3% of a rediculous bill from blue cross and I offered to man up and pay 5% of my $100.00 deductible and they weren't satisfied with that ? hmmmmmmmm .
MrCute Anny
7:10 am on Thursday, April 11, 2013
They divided it up in every possible way to milk us for as much as they possibly could. After five months, it did get taken care of - heck, they even admitted it was inappropriate billing - but that kind of stuff has become normal these days. In any case: as far as knowing what something will cost ahead of time: UNN http://www.unn.edu.ng